I usually can see the good in people. I think we are all beautiful in our own way. La la la, sunshiny day.
Except for leftist, statist, marxists. They are ugly though and through. And even the young-ones, the union thugs. I saw only ugliness in the videos I watched.
I'm waiting to see the Black Panthers break up a town hall meeting. They were vindicated in their intimidation at polling places during the Obama Election. It would make sense that they could bust up a town meeting without getting so much as an unkind word from the media.
Nickie, Although i am Scottish and British, I have always voted for right wing parties like the Republicans. I cannot however understand the fear in the States for a National Helath Service. Across Europe health is free at the point of contact. If you want to pay for private health care over and above that is your right. Insurance companies are ok until you try and claim then you are rejected because of pre-existing conditions etc, etc. Further on in your postings you state that 48% of mortgages are in what we call negative equity or what you I think call "underwater". Do you think they are able to keep health insurance up. If they can't and they get a condition like for instance diabetes, how are they going to ever get insurance again?
"Insurance" is the distribution of risk for potentialities; "coverage" for pre-existing conditions is therefore not an insurance issue. It's a welfare or transfer payment issue.
It's an important distinction, because it eliminates a villain and places the debate where it belongs, in the public arena. The authoritarians formulating the terms of debate on "health care" are intentionally blurring the lines between what is necessary and what is imperfect, and finding government as the solution to both.
Probably everyone here, and especially conservatarians, believe that some kind of "reform" of American medical delivery is necessary.
But if you don't understand our objections to single payer, you don't understand America. Medical care is neither a right nor a privilege; it's a material good, something desirable, and we don't accept the statist reflex that desirable things are EVER delivered efficiently or justly by a vast administrative state.
Americans, I like to believe, are still problem-solvers; imaginative enough to find totally new solutions to old problems without resorting to dead collectivist notions. We can "reform" this system, but not without a free and open debate, and that's not being permitted. When that happens, there's coercion and repression under way. We reject it every time we see it.
Dark, thank you so much for you question, and your visit.
My son was born on the NHS, and I have few complaints about that experience. I was shocked, though, at the NHS' shockingly poor level of quality services in dental, general practice, nutrition, dermatology, I could go on. I witnessed overwhelmed surgeries, outnumbered nurses, and discouraged patients and families.
Dark, here is a portion of a blog post that describes some differences between health systems in our countries. "There is an old Chinese curse: May you get what you wish for. Our healthcare is far from perfect, but it is still better than the alternatives. Here are some statistics for you.
Percentage of people who wait more than 4 months for surgery: 23% in Australia 26% in New Zealand 27% in Canada 36% in United Kingdom 5% in US Heart surgery in the UK done 1/4 of the rate as done in the United States Dialysis patients wait 62 days in Canada for blood-vessel access - 16 days in the United States 1.8 Million people are waiting for hospital care or outpatient treatment at any given time in the UK 160 day waiting period for knee replacement surgery in Norway UK has 1/4 of CT scanners per capita of the US UK has 1/3 of MRI scanners per capita of the US UK provides only 1/4 of the rate of the US for coronary-bypass surgery US provides life saving kidney treatments at the rate of 9 times than the UK for people over the age of 85 (Can you say rationing?) Only one in ten adult Canadians have had a colonoscopy compared to one in three in the US Twice as many Canadian women have not had a mammogram compared to the US The rate of mortality is 25% higher in Canada than in the US for breast cancer, 8% for prostate cancer and 13% higher for colorectal cancer Approx. 8 million of the uninsured in this country make more than $75,000 per year
Data from the National Center for Policy Analysis. Data available at ncpa.org"
USA 47 million without health insurance 25 million under insured $2.2 TRILLION spent on health care 16% of U.S. GDP spent on healthcare Highest infant mortality of any first world country Shortest life expectancy of any first world country Highest obesity rates of any first world country
Makes interesting reading. Quoting that the U.S. has 4 times as many scanners or MRI machines per capita means nothing if 50% of the population have no access to them.
Guys don't be afraid of it. The NHS in Britain isn't perfect but I've got lots of health problems and the treatment I get is fabulous.
One example; I suffer from sleep aponea which means that basically without going into it in too much detail means that I am not breathing properly when I am asleep and therefore I was totally tired and falling asleep during the day. Within 2 months of it being diagnosed, I was taken into my local hospital for seven nights as an in-patient for trials and eventually was sent home with a "breathing" machine which is on sale on U.S. websites for over $2000. All of this was done totally free of charge or insurance requirements. My dental work is also done mostly free of charge by a NHS dentist and although I don't have a set of teeth like one of the Osmonds, my teeth are in pretty good condition.
Dark, don't lose any sleep over this, but a 40-something man I know of died on a sleep apnea machine a month ago. The machine had stopped. Is there any safety mechanism if the machine malfunctions?
Also, who are you to say sections of the US population don't have access to MRIs. Heck, the illegals in CA claim work injuries and have more MRIs on more body parts that you can imagine. They don't even need to speak the language. Certified interpreters are provided FREE. Medical and Medicaid provide FREE care for the poor. ANYBODY can go into ANY emergency room and get care for FREE. There is plenty of socialism here already. You keep the system you are happy with. I am happy for you that you are happy. Really I am. But just because you like it, doesn't mean I will. I am an American. Fiercely independent. Don't tread on me.
Ok, but the fact that you have the highest rates for infant mortality, heart disease, diabetes, obesity and the shortest life expectancy in the "civilised" world would mean to me that something wasn't working properly. Mind you if I was stuffed up to the eyeballs in health insurance, I might have a F**k you poor bastards attitude too. Have you seen the film on American health by that fat Director that made the film "Farnheit" 49 or similiar, his name escapes me, but it was very thought provoking. Remember the first duty of an insurance corporation is to make profit and if that includes worming their way out of making payments they will. I just hope you don't find in later years that you have a condition that is not covered for whatever reason.
Sorry the film, I crudely refered to above was "Sicko" by Michael Moore the ACADEMY AWARD NOMINATED, 3rd highest grossing documetary ever. If you haven't seen it, watch it. It is very thought provoking, although I have no doubt you Rupublicans won't like Michael Moore! Opus#6 thanks for your concern concerning my machine but the answer is that you are still able to breathe through the valve even in the machine malfunctions.
The "something that is not working properly" cannot be attributed ONLY to the lack of care, but to lifestyle and demographic issues which won't be changed by single-payer. I do, in any case, need to understand the truth, relevance and ranges of Dark's claims.
The profit canard, in any case, is just prejudicial. Profit expands also with efficiencies and productivity, and dozens of other ways with real merit, so it's simply stupid - sorry Dark - to imply that inferior care is a profit builder.
If Govt is non-profit, it has NO incentives to efficiency or advanced productivity. Ever.
If it did, MediCare, MediCaid, Social Security, the NHS and limitless other government-run systems wouldn't be catastophically broke.
Your NHS needs constant and bigger infusions of cash all the time. Consider the expanding budgets just the beautiful result of negative profit, can't-even-break-even performance of government anything. You be better off learning Klingon in the possibility that Klingons actually exist.
If you like your system, good for you. We expect better, and have the will and imagination to get it.
By the way, Dark, you assume the shortfalls in American "healthcare" to be due to something not working properly, and then advance the claim that profit is one cause.
I hope the NHS isn't run by people with this logic. Just admit it Dark, you're a "conservative" by your own definition, but you like single-payer.
...clarification...IM rates are calculated with the baseline of "live birth"...France and Switzlerland, for example, use weight, gestation length and measurement, not a heartbeat. These babies are "dead" and don't show in the IM statistics.
The US considers a "live birth" to be any sign of life, no matter how disabled or premature.
We will naturally have a higher IM rate for these unfortunate cases. Maybe Dark can explain the standards for live birth in the UK, as he crows about the 5 per 1000.
Ah, thank you again, Rhod. You have the energy and skill to debunk Dark's rumors.
Dark, you might consider losing weight, too. I hear obesity contributes for sleep apnea. Think of all the money you will save by buying less food for yourself.
Obesity as measured by the (now suspect)BMI Index is extant in the West.
Like the liberals' fetish for more-and-better-high-quality-21st-century education, body weight is easily managed by the right mix of hectoring and coercion by some government jackass behind a gray steel desk.
I want Dark to tell me what obesity is, and to provide the WHO stats on it. If he's right, it should be easy.
More - the disparity between the overall life expectancy in the US compared to the NHS paradise in the UK is horrifying. According to the CIA 2008 factbook:
Overall LE - UK - 78.7 Overall LE - US - 78.06
Male LE - UK - 76.23 Male LE - US - 75.15
Female LE - UK - 81.3 Female LE - US - 80.97
America is a charnel house!
Life expectancy is the average number of years to be lived by people born in the same year.
The average will be influenced by the Infant Mortality rates, which means that US IM figures are bringing DOWN the average LE of Americans.
If we calculated IM the way other countries do, our LE would go up.
My, I seem to have stirred you boys up. Opus#6. It is true that by most standards I am obese which as you quite rightly point out is a cause of S.A. I can however beg some excuse as through no fault of my own I contracted Diabetes which in turn led to Charcot's disease and disability which in turn along with my free insulin and the inability to exercise led to my weight gain. I am currently being assessed for Bariatric surgery on the NHS, which I expect to go for shortly as I have seen the consultant, Physcologist, Dietician and had a cardiac check(as I also have angina) and am due a last appointment shortly with the surgeon to discuss risk. Again this is being done on the NHS, free of charge. Well that is not strictly true. Because I have been self employed most of my life I paid when I was healthy and able to work £4.25 per week, what about $7 and that has paid my health treatment, unemployment and/or disability payments and will in future fund a state pension. I currently get around £2000 or $3500 per month in disability payments and all my hospital treatment, Dental treatment and Pharmacy bills, (I take around 40 tablets per day) are free.
All this and we spend a smaller percentage of our GDP on health than you do. Maybe America is not as efficient as you thought it was. I notice that despite banding about some ridiculous statements like about babies breathing or not to be stillborn or some such BS, you have not been able to refute my assertions. Not only that but we have some of the finest research establishments in this country as well. Remember "Dolly the Sheep" from Edinburgh, here in dear old Scotland which gave America the Scottish Diaspora and such "American" heroes as Carnegie and John Logie Baird. Not forgetting the KKK!
Anyway we won't change each others minds, my purpose in posting was only to try and persuade you to keep an open mind. What about the Michael Moore film? You are welcome to come and visit me on my blog any time.
The standards for live and stillborn per country are those recorded by the World Health Organization and UNICEF in the context of accuracy for Infant Mortality. You can persist in your ignorance if it feels good. Don't try to learn anything.
You were wrong about IM, you were shifty about life expectancy, and you're also wrong about obesity in the UK. Stats from your govt (you can find them if you have the intelligence) show that 78% of Brits are overweight and 38% are obese. In the US, it's 66% and 33%respectively. Finding this data is apparently much too hard for you.
I haven't refuted your assertions? You, sir, are a fool, and if you're drawing your conclusions from Michael Moore, you're twice the fool. Finally, we spend more because we have more access.
What's the point. Visit your blog? Why? For more bullshit? You haven't challenged my data or answered my questions. Good luck, mate.
By the way, I'm of Scottish extraction. So big effing deal. In my experience, there's no more arrogant and prone-to-flummery and self-regard than Scots.
Over here we make an effort not to project ourselves with preposterous puffery about national identity.
Finally, try not be a jerk on top of the race-proud nonsense. The KKK?
Try to get past the idiotic stereotypes, especially about yourself and your tartan blood.
Over here we make an effort not to project ourselves with preposterous puffery about national identity. Christ you could have fooled me! How do you measure obesity, by the now discredited BIM index. Anyway it is not my purpose when I started this posting to get into ridiculous arguements about one or two percentage points. It's nearly 3 am here and the only reason I don't want to research figures is the time, not lack of intellegence, which is an assertion I find insulting But then the last resort of a beaten debater is usually an insult, so I am not suprised. The KKK comment was supposed to be lighthearted BTW but it appears that you don't do irony. What is Rhod short for , Rhodedendrum?
Just to clarify on IM, Dark....It seems to confuse you.
If a state allows ALL disadvantaged infants to die just after birth, and only permits the healthiest to leave the delivery room, that state will have a very LOW IM rate.
For the reverse, a state that attempts to "save" and treat the weakest will have a higher IM rate...BECAUSE the IM rate is a measurement of children who die before THE AGE OF 12 MONTHS!
This isn't difficult, but perhaps only for you. State to state comparisons of IM rates is meaningless without the other information.
Rhoda, you seem to be confusing me with someone who gives a f**k. I don't care about infant mortality, obesity or indeen the extra wide turnstyles that are required at Disneyworld to let in the Popcorn munchers. I started off making general points and it has turned into some slagging match about a percentasge point here or there. I like the Sates and I like the people but I don't think your Health System is equitable or fair to the uninsured. But you obviously do and it is your health service, so I hope you enjoy it and I also hope that you never find yourself underinsured and having to depend on Medicare.
Go play with your sporran, dipwad. Most Scots can at least stand up and defend their words instead of wiggling and snivelling like a ponce. You're the exception.
Rhoda you are a very vile person. How can I get it through your thick skull that I don't live in the U.S. and personally couldn't give a monkey's f**k what your health service is like. As howevr you accuse me of being unable, (which is actually a lack of desire on my part), to research figures could I refer you to the article in today's Washington Post, "Like your health insurance, maybe you shouldn't" or the Wikepedia Entry "Health care in the united states" which states that health care in the U.S. is the highest in cost but only 37th in overall performance and 72nd in overall level of health out of 191 countries. You may also like to look at nybooks.com/articles/18802
Just for anyone else reading this who hasn't like me the time or inclination to trawl through a load of shite the following is the conclusion from the Wshington Post. "in short a market for health insurance works only if you prevent insurers from doing what insurers naturally do i.e. discriminate against people according to how risky they are.
And that my friend is where, in a nutshell, the American Health breaks down.
He is also the loon who claims that obesity rates in the US are the highest in the civilized world when his own government records higher rates in the UK, and he goes on to belittle fat Americans when he describes himself as obese.
45 comments:
Looks like an "Obama approved" Town Hall meeting.
Gene, our Union brothers are only there to protect us from the mobsters and community organizers.
I usually can see the good in people. I think we are all beautiful in our own way. La la la, sunshiny day.
Except for leftist, statist, marxists. They are ugly though and through. And even the young-ones, the union thugs. I saw only ugliness in the videos I watched.
I'm waiting to see the Black Panthers break up a town hall meeting. They were vindicated in their intimidation at polling places during the Obama Election. It would make sense that they could bust up a town meeting without getting so much as an unkind word from the media.
Opie, I believe you're gonna see a lot more ugliness with this administration.
Dave, you know there's gonna be conflicts to come. Some heroic. Some tragic.
LL, that's a dimension I hadn't considered. Can't imagine ANYTHING good coming out of that!
Nickie, swing by The Kid's blog when you have a chance.
I've already been there, Ope. Wasn't that cool?
Nickie, Although i am Scottish and British, I have always voted for right wing parties like the Republicans. I cannot however understand the fear in the States for a National Helath Service. Across Europe health is free at the point of contact. If you want to pay for private health care over and above that is your right. Insurance companies are ok until you try and claim then you are rejected because of pre-existing conditions etc, etc. Further on in your postings you state that 48% of mortgages are in what we call negative equity or what you I think call "underwater". Do you think they are able to keep health insurance up. If they can't and they get a condition like for instance diabetes, how are they going to ever get insurance again?
"Insurance" is the distribution of risk for potentialities; "coverage" for pre-existing conditions is therefore not an insurance issue. It's a welfare or transfer payment issue.
It's an important distinction, because it eliminates a villain and places the debate where it belongs, in the public arena. The authoritarians formulating the terms of debate on "health care" are intentionally blurring the lines between what is necessary and what is imperfect, and finding government as the solution to both.
Probably everyone here, and especially conservatarians, believe that some kind of "reform" of American medical delivery is necessary.
But if you don't understand our objections to single payer, you don't understand America.
Medical care is neither a right nor a privilege; it's a material good, something desirable, and we don't accept the statist reflex that desirable things are EVER delivered efficiently or justly by a vast administrative state.
Americans, I like to believe, are still problem-solvers; imaginative enough to find totally new solutions to old problems without resorting to dead collectivist notions. We can "reform" this system, but not without a free and open debate, and that's not being permitted. When that happens, there's coercion and repression under way. We reject it every time we see it.
Dark, thank you so much for you question, and your visit.
My son was born on the NHS, and I have few complaints about that experience. I was shocked, though, at the NHS' shockingly poor level of quality services in dental, general practice, nutrition, dermatology, I could go on. I witnessed overwhelmed surgeries, outnumbered nurses, and discouraged patients and families.
I don't want to replicate that here.
Rhod...
Yeah, what you said!
Dark, here is a portion of a blog post that describes some differences between health systems in our countries.
"There is an old Chinese curse: May you get what you wish for. Our healthcare is far from perfect, but it is still better than the alternatives. Here are some statistics for you.
Percentage of people who wait more than 4 months for surgery:
23% in Australia
26% in New Zealand
27% in Canada
36% in United Kingdom
5% in US
Heart surgery in the UK done 1/4 of the rate as done in the United States
Dialysis patients wait 62 days in Canada for blood-vessel access - 16 days in the United States
1.8 Million people are waiting for hospital care or outpatient treatment at any given time in the UK
160 day waiting period for knee replacement surgery in Norway
UK has 1/4 of CT scanners per capita of the US
UK has 1/3 of MRI scanners per capita of the US
UK provides only 1/4 of the rate of the US for coronary-bypass surgery
US provides life saving kidney treatments at the rate of 9 times than the UK for people over the age of 85 (Can you say rationing?)
Only one in ten adult Canadians have had a colonoscopy compared to one in three in the US
Twice as many Canadian women have not had a mammogram compared to the US
The rate of mortality is 25% higher in Canada than in the US for breast cancer, 8% for prostate cancer and 13% higher for colorectal cancer
Approx. 8 million of the uninsured in this country make more than $75,000 per year
Data from the National Center for Policy Analysis. Data available at ncpa.org"
Ok, I'll give you some other facts.
USA
47 million without health insurance
25 million under insured
$2.2 TRILLION spent on health care
16% of U.S. GDP spent on healthcare
Highest infant mortality of any first world country
Shortest life expectancy of any first world country
Highest obesity rates of any first world country
Makes interesting reading. Quoting that the U.S. has 4 times as many scanners or MRI machines per capita means nothing if 50% of the population have no access to them.
Guys don't be afraid of it. The NHS in Britain isn't perfect but I've got lots of health problems and the treatment I get is fabulous.
One example; I suffer from sleep aponea which means that basically without going into it in too much detail means that I am not breathing properly when I am asleep and therefore I was totally tired and falling asleep during the day. Within 2 months of it being diagnosed, I was taken into my local hospital for seven nights as an in-patient for trials and eventually was sent home with a "breathing" machine which is on sale on U.S. websites for over $2000. All of this was done totally free of charge or insurance requirements. My dental work is also done mostly free of charge by a NHS dentist and although I don't have a set of teeth like one of the Osmonds, my teeth are in pretty good condition.
Dark, don't lose any sleep over this, but a 40-something man I know of died on a sleep apnea machine a month ago. The machine had stopped. Is there any safety mechanism if the machine malfunctions?
Also, who are you to say sections of the US population don't have access to MRIs. Heck, the illegals in CA claim work injuries and have more MRIs on more body parts that you can imagine. They don't even need to speak the language. Certified interpreters are provided FREE. Medical and Medicaid provide FREE care for the poor. ANYBODY can go into ANY emergency room and get care for FREE. There is plenty of socialism here already. You keep the system you are happy with. I am happy for you that you are happy. Really I am. But just because you like it, doesn't mean I will. I am an American. Fiercely independent. Don't tread on me.
Dark, the most frightening words I can image are "don't be afraid of it". From experience, at that point I get very very afraid.
Ok, but the fact that you have the highest rates for infant mortality, heart disease, diabetes, obesity and the shortest life expectancy in the "civilised" world would mean to me that something wasn't working properly. Mind you if I was stuffed up to the eyeballs in health insurance, I might have a F**k you poor bastards attitude too. Have you seen the film on American health by that fat Director that made the film "Farnheit" 49 or similiar, his name escapes me, but it was very thought provoking. Remember the first duty of an insurance corporation is to make profit and if that includes worming their way out of making payments they will. I just hope you don't find in later years that you have a condition that is not covered for whatever reason.
Sorry the film, I crudely refered to above was "Sicko" by Michael Moore the ACADEMY AWARD NOMINATED, 3rd highest grossing documetary ever. If you haven't seen it, watch it. It is very thought provoking, although I have no doubt you Rupublicans won't like Michael Moore! Opus#6 thanks for your concern concerning my machine but the answer is that you are still able to breathe through the valve even in the machine malfunctions.
The "something that is not working properly" cannot be attributed ONLY to the lack of care, but to lifestyle and demographic issues which won't be changed by single-payer. I do, in any case, need to understand the truth, relevance and ranges of Dark's claims.
The profit canard, in any case, is just prejudicial. Profit expands also with efficiencies and productivity, and dozens of other ways with real merit, so it's simply stupid - sorry Dark - to imply that inferior care is a profit builder.
If Govt is non-profit, it has NO incentives to efficiency or advanced productivity. Ever.
If it did, MediCare, MediCaid, Social Security, the NHS and limitless other government-run systems wouldn't be catastophically broke.
Your NHS needs constant and bigger infusions of cash all the time. Consider the expanding budgets just the beautiful result of negative profit, can't-even-break-even performance of government anything. You be better off learning Klingon in the possibility that Klingons actually exist.
If you like your system, good for you. We expect better, and have the will and imagination to get it.
By the way, Dark, you assume the shortfalls in American "healthcare" to be due to something not working properly, and then advance the claim that profit is one cause.
I hope the NHS isn't run by people with this logic. Just admit it Dark, you're a "conservative" by your own definition, but you like single-payer.
I also just saw your stats and following text.
Just for starters, what is the composition of the 47 million and what does "underinsured" mean?
And what do you mean by "free"?
...clarification...IM rates are calculated with the baseline of "live birth"...France and Switzlerland, for example, use weight, gestation length and measurement, not a heartbeat. These babies are "dead" and don't show in the IM statistics.
The US considers a "live birth" to be any sign of life, no matter how disabled or premature.
We will naturally have a higher IM rate for these unfortunate cases. Maybe Dark can explain the standards for live birth in the UK, as he crows about the 5 per 1000.
Ah, thank you again, Rhod. You have the energy and skill to debunk Dark's rumors.
Dark, you might consider losing weight, too. I hear obesity contributes for sleep apnea. Think of all the money you will save by buying less food for yourself.
Obesity as measured by the (now suspect)BMI Index is extant in the West.
Like the liberals' fetish for more-and-better-high-quality-21st-century education, body weight is easily managed by the right mix of hectoring and coercion by some government jackass behind a gray steel desk.
I want Dark to tell me what obesity is, and to provide the WHO stats on it. If he's right, it should be easy.
More - the disparity between the overall life expectancy in the US compared to the NHS paradise in the UK is horrifying. According to the CIA 2008 factbook:
Overall LE - UK - 78.7
Overall LE - US - 78.06
Male LE - UK - 76.23
Male LE - US - 75.15
Female LE - UK - 81.3
Female LE - US - 80.97
America is a charnel house!
Life expectancy is the average number of years to be lived by people born in the same year.
The average will be influenced by the Infant Mortality rates, which means that US IM figures are bringing DOWN the average LE of Americans.
If we calculated IM the way other countries do, our LE would go up.
I am particularly worried about Dark's LE. How does obesity and apnea figure into it?
We'll know, Opie, when they come for Dark's apnea device and give it to someone with greater "utility" to the EU.
My, I seem to have stirred you boys up. Opus#6. It is true that by most standards I am obese which as you quite rightly point out is a cause of S.A. I can however beg some excuse as through no fault of my own I contracted Diabetes which in turn led to Charcot's disease and disability which in turn along with my free insulin and the inability to exercise led to my weight gain. I am currently being assessed for Bariatric surgery on the NHS, which I expect to go for shortly as I have seen the consultant, Physcologist, Dietician and had a cardiac check(as I also have angina) and am due a last appointment shortly with the surgeon to discuss risk. Again this is being done on the NHS, free of charge. Well that is not strictly true. Because I have been self employed most of my life I paid when I was healthy and able to work £4.25 per week, what about $7 and that has paid my health treatment, unemployment and/or disability payments and will in future fund a state pension. I currently get around £2000 or $3500 per month in disability payments and all my hospital treatment, Dental treatment and Pharmacy bills, (I take around 40 tablets per day) are free.
All this and we spend a smaller percentage of our GDP on health than you do. Maybe America is not as efficient as you thought it was. I notice that despite banding about some ridiculous statements like about babies breathing or not to be stillborn or some such BS, you have not been able to refute my assertions. Not only that but we have some of the finest research establishments in this country as well. Remember "Dolly the Sheep" from Edinburgh, here in dear old Scotland which gave America the Scottish Diaspora and such "American" heroes as Carnegie and John Logie Baird. Not forgetting the KKK!
Anyway we won't change each others minds, my purpose in posting was only to try and persuade you to keep an open mind. What about the Michael Moore film? You are welcome to come and visit me on my blog any time.
The standards for live and stillborn per country are those recorded by the World Health Organization and UNICEF in the context of accuracy for Infant Mortality. You can persist in your ignorance if it feels good. Don't try to learn anything.
You were wrong about IM, you were shifty about life expectancy, and you're also wrong about obesity in the UK. Stats from your govt (you can find them if you have the intelligence) show that 78% of Brits are overweight and 38% are obese. In the US, it's 66% and 33%respectively. Finding this data is apparently much too hard for you.
I haven't refuted your assertions?
You, sir, are a fool, and if you're drawing your conclusions from Michael Moore, you're twice the fool. Finally, we spend more because we have more access.
What's the point. Visit your blog? Why? For more bullshit? You haven't challenged my data or answered my questions. Good luck, mate.
By the way, I'm of Scottish extraction. So big effing deal. In my experience, there's no more arrogant and prone-to-flummery and self-regard than Scots.
Over here we make an effort not to project ourselves with preposterous puffery about national identity.
Finally, try not be a jerk on top of the race-proud nonsense. The KKK?
Try to get past the idiotic stereotypes, especially about yourself and your tartan blood.
Rhod
Over here we make an effort not to project ourselves with preposterous puffery about national identity. Christ you could have fooled me! How do you measure obesity, by the now discredited BIM index. Anyway it is not my purpose when I started this posting to get into ridiculous arguements about one or two percentage points. It's nearly 3 am here and the only reason I don't want to research figures is the time, not lack of intellegence, which is an assertion I find insulting But then the last resort of a beaten debater is usually an insult, so I am not suprised. The KKK comment was supposed to be lighthearted BTW but it appears that you don't do irony. What is Rhod short for , Rhodedendrum?
You can't research figures in the AM so you traffic in lies?
Maybe you can research a dictionary. Rhodedendrum?
Don't embarrass yourself. I dismissed at least four of your so-called "assertions", and could do the same with the rest.
Cling to your prejudices, Dark.
Whatever. Trouble is, truth and reality are stubborn; they go whether you believe them or not.
Just to clarify on IM, Dark....It seems to confuse you.
If a state allows ALL disadvantaged infants to die just after birth, and only permits the healthiest to leave the delivery room, that state will have a very LOW IM rate.
For the reverse, a state that attempts to "save" and treat the weakest will have a higher IM rate...BECAUSE the IM rate is a measurement of children who die before THE AGE OF 12 MONTHS!
This isn't difficult, but perhaps only for you. State to state comparisons of IM rates is meaningless without the other information.
Rhoda, you seem to be confusing me with someone who gives a f**k. I don't care about infant mortality, obesity or indeen the extra wide turnstyles that are required at Disneyworld to let in the Popcorn munchers. I started off making general points and it has turned into some slagging match about a percentasge point here or there. I like the Sates and I like the people but I don't think your Health System is equitable or fair to the uninsured. But you obviously do and it is your health service, so I hope you enjoy it and I also hope that you never find yourself underinsured and having to depend on Medicare.
Go play with your sporran, dipwad. Most Scots can at least stand up and defend their words instead of wiggling and snivelling like a ponce. You're the exception.
Rhoda you are a very vile person. How can I get it through your thick skull that I don't live in the U.S. and personally couldn't give a monkey's f**k what your health service is like. As howevr you accuse me of being unable, (which is actually a lack of desire on my part), to research figures could I refer you to the article in today's Washington Post, "Like your health insurance, maybe you shouldn't" or the Wikepedia Entry "Health care in the united states" which states that health care in the U.S. is the highest in cost but only 37th in overall performance and 72nd in overall level of health out of 191 countries. You may also like to look at nybooks.com/articles/18802
Just for anyone else reading this who hasn't like me the time or inclination to trawl through a load of shite the following is the conclusion from the Wshington Post. "in short a market for health insurance works only if you prevent insurers from doing what insurers naturally do i.e. discriminate against people according to how risky they are.
And that my friend is where, in a nutshell, the American Health breaks down.
PS:
He is also the loon who claims that obesity rates in the US are the highest in the civilized world when his own government records higher rates in the UK, and he goes on to belittle fat Americans when he describes himself as obese.
Last word from me.
And from me.
p.s. you have a problem.
Problem? I hd no problem. I could destroy your arguments in my sleep.
In your dreams, arsewipe. your problem is that you don't consider the other person's arguement.
Coming out of your pretty shell, are you?
Your comment is utterly deranged. That apnea is draining some vital energy from your cranium.
I DID consider what you laughingly call an "arguement". But you had no argument. If you had an argument the pressure would make your eyes bleed.
Anyway, I'm out of here. Argue with yourself.
I need to respond to this one.
I think I'll save your comment, Dark, for another time, when I can quote it on your behalf.
Actualy, Dark, I'm overtly heterosexual.
How's YOU'RE love life...and remember, a warm suet pudding doesn't qualify as a "date".
I'll have been happily married for 32 years in September, Son.
Post a Comment