The UK is governed by the "New" Labour Party - a party that takes its inspiration from Margaret Thatcher - that believes in free and unregulated markets - that has sold off chunks of national assets while privatizing services. Hardly socialist.
DC, you captured the frustration of the post-Bevin Brit. But my favorite remains your flamboyant Charles Nelson Reilly. You truly are a theatrical chameleon.
Very informative blog. I found this a little dry, but then again the poor chap probably missed his spotted dick at mumsies table the night before! Karyn
Interesting ...... but utter rubbish. Britain hasn't been "socialist" or even had a social democracy for thirty years. In my opinion Thatcher ruined this country, selling off everything to the private sector and sacrificing us to market forces. Blair just followed in the Conservatives' footsteps. I am thankful we still have one last vestige of "socialism" - the National Health Service - whatever life throws at us, at least we have some of the best healthcare in the world, free for all at the point of need - and our taxes for this are considerably less than private healthcare (I know - I lived in the USA!!). No-one dies or is made homeless because they can't pay the medical bills. I love the UK, have travelled widely, lived overseas (including the US) and wouldn't live anywhere else!
Hey DC - you miss the point. I won't be voting GB because the Labour Party are no long a party of Social Democracy. They are little different from the Conservatives as far as I can see.
And there are around 200,000 Americans in the UK I believe, all enjoying free, high quality healthcare. My own parents would be bankrupt by now if they lived in the USA. My Mum received treatment for cancer, kidney dialysis, a kidney transplant, and receives all medications for a rare autoimmune diseases completely free of charge. She can't speak more highly of the NHS. And yes, people do travel from all over the world to pay private fees to use the NHS's excellent specialist hospitals such as Great Ormond Street.
And the food is fantastic - I think you haven't visited the UK for at least 25 years? At all?
I love the UK with no qualification. The island mentality creates behaviors that make sense when you're sitting in Weston-Super-Mare having traded your individual freedom and privacy for what seems to be security.
Nickie, I have lived in both the UK and the USA and can assure you there is no difference between our nations in terms of "individual freedom" and "security". One of the biggest freedoms I enjoy in the UK is knowing that I need not fear being denied treatment or being wiped out financially if I become ill. I am also not tied to working for a big corporation in order to secure affordable and reliable insurance.
Our media, like your own, is incredibly good at whipping up fear and hysteria about the government and what they are supposedly doing behind the scenes - the irony is that any conservative, right-leaning government that replaces the current lot won't actually be any different. And I think the media credit the government way too much - I don't believe they have the ability to conspire to do anything as Orwellian as many right wingers predict.
L. Cambridge ... you sound like a bunch of hopeless waifs. That's pretty sad to say about your parents. Are you hopeless without some one taking care of you? Pick yourself up, for crying out loud. It's a damn embarrassment. I am glad that at least you're in Britain's wagon, so you aren't added to mine. But I am sad for those who still care about freedom in the U.K. for your attitude.
Actually, most Americans are employed by small businesses like mine. We pay for ours and provide theirs. You think the "homeless" are on the streets because of their health care situation? Get informed. They are roaming the streets for the same reason that woman was dropping trow in front of the cameras in Britain recently. Unstable people with serious problems dealing with real life.
DC - I am insulted that you attack my parents, decent people who worked hard all their lives.
I know of far too many Americans who have been dropped by their medical insurers upon hitting older age or developing chronic illness. I know of one family in CA who face losing their home after the principal breadwinner became seriously ill and the insurers refused to pay out. I also met a English woman, who emigrated to the US in the early 1960s, who, after making a life for herself in the USA now has to return home to Britain to obtain the treatment her insurers are refusing. There are many more cases but I suspect I cannot sway your opinion - only if misfortune hits you or yours might you understand that private companies are only interested in their shareholders and highly-paid executives.
And it's not about needing someone to take of you. It is about the concept of society, community, standing together - letting the stronger care for the weak so they can become strong and return the favour. Why is that such a difficult idea for people to grasp?
You're the one who aired your parents' misfortune as an advertisment for socialized medicine. I've buried my parents, for what it's worth. They paid their bills, bought Medicare supplemental insurance, and they worked all their lives and saved. And when the chips were down, they counted on family to be there. We didn't call you or try to take your money to get by.
It's a difficult idea for me to grasp because I am free and you are not. You are a dependent ward of the state, in mind and spirit.
DC - we both want the same thing, a civilised nation that functions and allows everyone to prosper. That's not a bad thing. We just disagree on the best way to achieve that. That's called debate and is allowed in a free society. It's a shame you have to insult me, my family and countrymen to make your point. I haven't insulted you or belittled your beliefs. I love your country and its people and I have lived in your country - have you even stepped into mine?
One final comment - take the time to learn what Social Democracy is, why that isn't what the UK is experiencing right now, and why countries who regularly feature high on "Quality of Life" indices often have left-of-centre, social democrat societies and a strong effective welfare state.
"Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither." - Ben Franklin
Over the years I have witnessed the the bleeding of the bulldog. A noble "nation of shopkeepers" that produced some of the world's greatest poets and warriors has bowed to endless utopian tinkering and social engineering. Walk through its cities and marvel at the resonance of the death rattle, to the tune of a call to prayer from the neighborhood mosque. Walk it's countryside and witness the living dead who have fled the population centers in hope that their local councils (like latter King Canutes) might stem the tide of Marxism. Alas, Big Brother will win out.
CambridgeLady and I agree on one issue... the Tories are no solution. EU referendum? We can't be having that, can we?
Only the long view is important. Individuals, countries, civilizations make mistakes.
Comfort in your surroundings, in your society, and the need to validate your comfort with some philosophy or ideology doesn't mean that your society has made the right choices in the long term.
The problem of low native European and British birth rates and the collapsing ratio of producers to recipients requires the rapid assimilation of new and younger workers.
This is the unknown. Who will they be and how will they adapt themselves...or how will they adapt the host culture to themselves?
The complacency of the Euro and Brit left about their soft social democracies and the hopes for importance that they vest in the EU is a bit odd.
But, to say it again...I don't care what happens to Britain. I used to be an Anglophile. I'm over it. It's up to them, not us.
Nickie - I strongly believe that it's because we embraced the politics/economics of that unholy alliance - Thatcher/Reagan - that the UK's in the mess it's in. I'd welcome a bit of utopian tinkering and social engineering - we appear to have few people left in British politics with ideals/morals/aspirations - they just seem to be in it for the money they can make. Please understand - Britain is NOT a socialist country - hasn't been anything approaching left-of-centre for decades. That's why I got drawn in to the debate on this post.
Lady, it all comes down to perspective, I believe. As a Reagan Conservative, I see each governmental move toward control as yet another eroding wave of Marxism. My dear neighbor, a flaming Communist, sees the election of Obama as an insidious move by the corporations to enslave the nation.
Some years ago, I was living in St. Ives, Cornwall. A tourist visiting from East Anglia fell on the quay and opened up a generous leg wound. Blood poured out onto the ground. Small children cried and women swooned at the sight. I was a bit queasy too. The gent stood tall and, in a fashion I'd fully expected declared "Not to worry! Just a scratch. Worse things have happened at sea."
I so admired his strength and ability to make the best of this moment. By declaring it not a problem and ignoring the pool of blood at his feet, he was being so damned beautifully British. But I wouldn't want him interpreting the state of politics of any kind.
Your statement that "Britain is NOT a socialist country" falls into the same category.
BTW... "take the time to learn what Social Democracy is, why that isn't what the UK is experiencing right now, and why countries who regularly feature high on "Quality of Life" indices often have left-of-centre, social democrat societies and a strong effective welfare state" I always note that such rankings are usually done by Socialist organizations. One must consider the source.
Quality of Life, for the most part, is a calculation of the distribution of material wealth. Every society is different; its population homogeneity, mobility between classes and individual expectations vary.
It's essentially a Western idea of social justice and well-being. Except in cultures where diseas, hunger and evils are rampant, as in parts of Sub-Saharan Africa and it's easy to measure, it reflects the biases of the observer.
Ex: The Sunnis under Saddam Hussein measured their quality of life differently than the Shia.
To be clear, C. Lady, I have no quarrel with your parents. I certainly don't mean to insult them. Indeed, they didn't bring up your point (we'd all be helpless and hopeless without socialized medicine). You did. So, stop your whining and sniveling. Dammit, are there no tough-minded Brits, any more? How can some one's parents be insulted by an anonymous blogger on the internet who does not even know them, for crying out loud?! If I met your parents, I bet we would get along swimmingly. But, who gives a crap? That's not what this is about, and you know it. So, let's get over the nonsensical farce of personal bravo sierra, shall we?
My real issue is with your thinking. And I think it's wrong to use your family's misfortune as an advertisement for anything, particularly advocating becoming a ward of the state. You leftists engage in this issue-skirting emotionalism all the time.
I have nothing against Britain. I like the British, esp. the Scots and the British Royal Marines.
However, your country learned a while back that God (but not Allah, apparently) is dead, and state control of pretty much everything is the answer to your ills. Now, your country is swirling down a secular, post-modern hellhole that my parents taught me -- by their lives and words -- to fight to my dying breath.
Oh yeah. On the Economist's QofL Index for 2005, the US ranked 13th and the UK ranked 29th...the US was ahead of severaalEuro social demoncracies, including Germay, Belgium, The Netherlands and France.
Cambridge Lady, yes the NHS is great, within limits. It is nice to know that my current difficulty will not bankrupt me but I will have waited 4 months for a 10 minute chat with a Consultant at the, nearby, specialist hospital and I know that I will then face a further 2 months wait for a CT scan. It's called " Rationing By Waiting List " in the hopes that some of us will cure ourselves, go private or just die. Meanwhile I pay a private sector Osteopath 30 quid a fortnight for very effective pain relief. Their staff ? 6 practitioners, 1 receptionist/secretary while the bloated NHS has more managers than doctors and nurses combined. Go figure as our American friends say.
And another thing C Lady, we never had Social Democracy, we have a Corporatist Statist State which is getting Statier. Stalin would have loved it.
@banned - The NHS has its faults but it is better to be on a waiting list than have treatment denied because a bunch of guys in suits at your medical insurer decide to find some small print and deny you treatment altogether. I can counter your story with numerous examples of good, timely treatment. I am sorry you have had a bad experience.
At the end of the day, we pay into one giant insurance scheme - just like Americans. The major difference is that our insurers don't have to satisfy the needs of shareholders and fat cats first, before they start paying out. Bloated management and outsourcing are things I reject - they don't fit into what the NHS was envisioned to be. We pay far less into the NHS than Americans pay to private insurers - I've lived there, the figures are shocking.
If an American uses medical insurance and ends up claiming more than they pay in are they "helpless", as one commentator implied about people who use the NHS? Of course not, that's how insurance works! Unless you are an American who rejects insurance and adopts pay as you go for healthcare you are not standing on your own two feet - you are relying on the goodwill of your fellow insurers.
I would agree the UK is "corporatist" - the whole world is heading that way. The state is incredibly weak - it has so little control because everything has been sold off. For example, I'd love to see some joined up thinking on the coming energy crisis and transport - but with everything in private hands - how?
PS - the UK figures badly on the Q of A index because it ISN'T a social democracy. The US figures higher because of higher average wealth - inequality in the US has always been greater than in the UK but I fear we're catching up fast.
CL, your last paragraph, especially, is your most ludicrous. Up until then you might even have had the shred of an argument for your other ideas.
You obviously don't know what you're talking with the QofL, and if wealth DID raise the QofL, you choose to discount it as a factor to uphold your pseuo-morality of socialism. What a load of crap. In your mind, something simply is until it isn't.
You also ignore the other social democracies which, like Britain, that rate lower than the US, but who cares? You're impenetrable.
I'm not discounting wealth Rhod - I'm saying that is why the US does so well. Greater inequality in society does result in increased crime so that adversely affects quality of life ultimately.
I'm not your enemy Rhod - "you deserve what you get" - just someone with an alternate viewpoint. Can't we have a civilised discussion?
Look up the QofL indices. Explain the other social democracies whose ratings are lower than the US. I think the QofL Index is bogus, but you brought it up.
Explain your low birthrate; yours and the Continent's. What do you see 30 years out?
What percentage of GDP, spent on what, qualifies as a social democracy? Why do the other countries I mentioned not qualify?
How much does Britain spend on social services?
Income inequality? What is it, and how does in effect QofL? Does mobility within income group matter in QofL?
All countries face incredible challenges in the future. I don't see any nation on earth that is going to ride out the coming years without having to make changes and endure a degree of hardship - I'd be looking to move to such a country if it existed. I tried the USA, saw Bush get re-elected, looked at where things were heading and decided to return home. That doesn't mean I think the UK's perfect but there's a better chance of me eventually seeing the kind of society I seek here.
Look, I could go on all day too but no-one is going to change their viewpoint. I hope we have all given each other food for thought. I have certainly taken on board all the constructive comments that have been made here. Bye for now ........
I don't know which Britain Cambridge Lady is living in, but it's certainly not the one where I fucking live! (a parallel universe, perhaps, where all the other "socialists" live a utopian existence).
As far as QofL is concerned, the list I read says Britain is the worst place to live in Europe as I knew it would be!! That's just how it feels, too in the nasty, petty, civil liberties-destroying, police state of the Labour/EU dystopia that is our reality!
Just thought I'd chip in (since I'm the chap in the video). Barking Spider sums it up admirably, Britain is a socialist police state. C Lady is a fine example of the welfare addicts this country has bred. When government takes responsibilty for welfare and benefits, people loose the ability (and desire) to look after themselves. Freedom and self reliance become alien concepts to be feared. After fifty years of welfare dependancy, they are too brainwashed to reclaim their freedom. And despite her love of claiming the NHS is free, we all know, nothing is free.
@Hairy Chestnuts - I am not a "welfare addict" - I have never claimed a penny in benefits in my life. I pay taxes and provide for my own family.
I am blessed with good fortune, a great education and good health. I am aware that not everyone has been as lucky as me - I believe in the welfare state, in the power of community, to give assistance to those in need so that they might not be "welfare addicts" in the future.
Where the system has fallen down is that people no longer feel part of society and are out for whatever they can take - this, IMO, is due to the rise of individualism, a hangover from Thatcherism (which Nu-Labour embraces) and the "I'm all right Jack" mentality of the 1980s. Just an opinion ... I appreciate not all will share it, but please don't tar me with labels like "dependent" and "brainwashed" - I am neither.
The clearest sign that someone has forgotten freedom is when they defend the very system that enslaves them. It matters not that they havn't needed to claim benefits (yet), but the fact that they support the taking of one persons hard earned money (through tax) and giving it to another (through welfare). This is not individualism, this is socialism, this is theft. And this situation creates an entire population of welware addicts, not just those receiving the benefits, but all those that cannot imagine living in a world without a welfare state as a safety net. Individual responsibility is dead.
And when I lived in the US and needed health insurance I exchanged my "dependence" on the state for "dependence" on my private health insurer (and on all the other people who paid into the scheme). Do all the promoters of individual responsibility on this blog "pay as you go" for health care? If they do, I applaud them.
Where I lived in the US there were food banks - not just for the down and outs but for ordinary citizens. Would anyone say they should starve to death rather than be "dependent" on the goodwill of others who gave to the foodbank.
Would those advocating individualism get off their butts and maintain the road network outside their house if local government didn't take responsibility? Judging by the state of private roads in the UK - no! (and these are not in areas of socialism and welfare dependence ... usually pretty well-heeled conservative areas).
Any "pure" political/economic ideology, be it left or right wing, doesn't actually work if all members are not committed to the ideology. Which is why I consider myself a social democrat rather than a socialist - I believe there is some hope of such a system actually working if we gave it a chance.
46 comments:
Thanks for playing that, Nick. My British accent is pretty good in that clip, no? I thought you would like it.
"What a crock of shit this country is." LOL. Some one else wrote them, but the delivery is key, is it not?
The UK is governed by the "New" Labour Party - a party that takes its inspiration from Margaret Thatcher - that believes in free and unregulated markets - that has sold off chunks of national assets while privatizing services. Hardly socialist.
I love Spidie's stuff!
DC, you captured the frustration of the post-Bevin Brit. But my favorite remains your flamboyant Charles Nelson Reilly. You truly are a theatrical chameleon.
Coffeypot, I'm guessing that the pigs in a blanket are now off the school menu.
Scunny, that sound you hear is Lady Thatcher angrily coughing up a hairball in disbelief.
Yeah, bring back the good old days when British Rail ruled the countryside.
Opie, the dude has passion!
He might have mentioned that they took 'spotted dick' off the school lunch menu " in case " some poor child was shocked or offended.
Very informative blog. I found this a little dry, but then again the poor chap probably missed his spotted dick at mumsies table the night before! Karyn
Interesting ...... but utter rubbish. Britain hasn't been "socialist" or even had a social democracy for thirty years. In my opinion Thatcher ruined this country, selling off everything to the private sector and sacrificing us to market forces. Blair just followed in the Conservatives' footsteps. I am thankful we still have one last vestige of "socialism" - the National Health Service - whatever life throws at us, at least we have some of the best healthcare in the world, free for all at the point of need - and our taxes for this are considerably less than private healthcare (I know - I lived in the USA!!). No-one dies or is made homeless because they can't pay the medical bills. I love the UK, have travelled widely, lived overseas (including the US) and wouldn't live anywhere else!
I think we've found the one voter in Gordon Brown's camp -- Cambridge Lady. No, wait ... I guess Scunnert is there, too.
Incredible. C. Lady. I have heard about all the folks coming to Britain to wait in line for that great healthcare.
No, wait ... you like the food, too, I am sure.
Pretty soon you'll see him in a cowboy hat with a slight southern drawl, And he'll be speaking of this country.
Hey DC - you miss the point. I won't be voting GB because the Labour Party are no long a party of Social Democracy. They are little different from the Conservatives as far as I can see.
And there are around 200,000 Americans in the UK I believe, all enjoying free, high quality healthcare. My own parents would be bankrupt by now if they lived in the USA. My Mum received treatment for cancer, kidney dialysis, a kidney transplant, and receives all medications for a rare autoimmune diseases completely free of charge. She can't speak more highly of the NHS. And yes, people do travel from all over the world to pay private fees to use the NHS's excellent specialist hospitals such as Great Ormond Street.
And the food is fantastic - I think you haven't visited the UK for at least 25 years? At all?
I love the UK with no qualification. The island mentality creates behaviors that make sense when you're sitting in Weston-Super-Mare having traded your individual freedom and privacy for what seems to be security.
Nickie, I have lived in both the UK and the USA and can assure you there is no difference between our nations in terms of "individual freedom" and "security". One of the biggest freedoms I enjoy in the UK is knowing that I need not fear being denied treatment or being wiped out financially if I become ill. I am also not tied to working for a big corporation in order to secure affordable and reliable insurance.
Our media, like your own, is incredibly good at whipping up fear and hysteria about the government and what they are supposedly doing behind the scenes - the irony is that any conservative, right-leaning government that replaces the current lot won't actually be any different. And I think the media credit the government way too much - I don't believe they have the ability to conspire to do anything as Orwellian as many right wingers predict.
L. Cambridge ... you sound like a bunch of hopeless waifs. That's pretty sad to say about your parents. Are you hopeless without some one taking care of you? Pick yourself up, for crying out loud. It's a damn embarrassment. I am glad that at least you're in Britain's wagon, so you aren't added to mine. But I am sad for those who still care about freedom in the U.K. for your attitude.
Actually, most Americans are employed by small businesses like mine. We pay for ours and provide theirs. You think the "homeless" are on the streets because of their health care situation? Get informed. They are roaming the streets for the same reason that woman was dropping trow in front of the cameras in Britain recently. Unstable people with serious problems dealing with real life.
DC - I am insulted that you attack my parents, decent people who worked hard all their lives.
I know of far too many Americans who have been dropped by their medical insurers upon hitting older age or developing chronic illness. I know of one family in CA who face losing their home after the principal breadwinner became seriously ill and the insurers refused to pay out. I also met a English woman, who emigrated to the US in the early 1960s, who, after making a life for herself in the USA now has to return home to Britain to obtain the treatment her insurers are refusing. There are many more cases but I suspect I cannot sway your opinion - only if misfortune hits you or yours might you understand that private companies are only interested in their shareholders and highly-paid executives.
And it's not about needing someone to take of you. It is about the concept of society, community, standing together - letting the stronger care for the weak so they can become strong and return the favour. Why is that such a difficult idea for people to grasp?
Lady,
You're the one who aired your parents' misfortune as an advertisment for socialized medicine. I've buried my parents, for what it's worth. They paid their bills, bought Medicare supplemental insurance, and they worked all their lives and saved. And when the chips were down, they counted on family to be there. We didn't call you or try to take your money to get by.
It's a difficult idea for me to grasp because I am free and you are not. You are a dependent ward of the state, in mind and spirit.
DC - we both want the same thing, a civilised nation that functions and allows everyone to prosper. That's not a bad thing. We just disagree on the best way to achieve that. That's called debate and is allowed in a free society. It's a shame you have to insult me, my family and countrymen to make your point. I haven't insulted you or belittled your beliefs. I love your country and its people and I have lived in your country - have you even stepped into mine?
One final comment - take the time to learn what Social Democracy is, why that isn't what the UK is experiencing right now, and why countries who regularly feature high on "Quality of Life" indices often have left-of-centre, social democrat societies and a strong effective welfare state.
"Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither." - Ben Franklin
Over the years I have witnessed the the bleeding of the bulldog. A noble "nation of shopkeepers" that produced some of the world's greatest poets and warriors has bowed to endless utopian tinkering and social engineering. Walk through its cities and marvel at the resonance of the death rattle, to the tune of a call to prayer from the neighborhood mosque. Walk it's countryside and witness the living dead who have fled the population centers in hope that their local councils (like latter King Canutes) might stem the tide of Marxism. Alas, Big Brother will win out.
CambridgeLady and I agree on one issue... the Tories are no solution. EU referendum? We can't be having that, can we?
C-Lady's views and mine can't be reconciled.
Only the long view is important. Individuals, countries, civilizations make mistakes.
Comfort in your surroundings, in your society, and the need to validate your comfort with some philosophy or ideology doesn't mean that your society has made the right choices in the long term.
The problem of low native European and British birth rates and the collapsing ratio of producers to recipients requires the rapid assimilation of new and younger workers.
This is the unknown. Who will they be and how will they adapt themselves...or how will they adapt the host culture to themselves?
The complacency of the Euro and Brit left about their soft social
democracies and the hopes for importance that they vest in the EU is a bit odd.
But, to say it again...I don't care what happens to Britain. I used to be an Anglophile. I'm over it. It's up to them, not us.
Nickie - I strongly believe that it's because we embraced the politics/economics of that unholy alliance - Thatcher/Reagan - that the UK's in the mess it's in. I'd welcome a bit of utopian tinkering and social engineering - we appear to have few people left in British politics with ideals/morals/aspirations - they just seem to be in it for the money they can make. Please understand - Britain is NOT a socialist country - hasn't been anything approaching left-of-centre for decades. That's why I got drawn in to the debate on this post.
Did Reagan and Thatcher economics bankrupt Britain?
Just askin'?
Lady, it all comes down to perspective, I believe. As a Reagan Conservative, I see each governmental move toward control as yet another eroding wave of Marxism. My dear neighbor, a flaming Communist, sees the election of Obama as an insidious move by the corporations to enslave the nation.
Some years ago, I was living in St. Ives, Cornwall. A tourist visiting from East Anglia fell on the quay and opened up a generous leg wound. Blood poured out onto the ground. Small children cried and women swooned at the sight. I was a bit queasy too. The gent stood tall and, in a fashion I'd
fully expected declared "Not to worry! Just a scratch. Worse things have happened at sea."
I so admired his strength and ability to make the best of this moment. By declaring it not a problem and ignoring the pool of blood at his feet, he was being so damned beautifully British. But I wouldn't want him interpreting the state of politics of any kind.
Your statement that "Britain is NOT a socialist country" falls into the same category.
BTW... "take the time to learn what Social Democracy is, why that isn't what the UK is experiencing right now, and why countries who regularly feature high on "Quality of Life" indices often have left-of-centre, social democrat societies and a strong effective welfare state" I always note that such rankings are usually done by Socialist organizations. One must consider the source.
Quality of Life, for the most part, is a calculation of the distribution of material wealth. Every society is different; its population homogeneity, mobility between classes and individual expectations vary.
It's essentially a Western idea of social justice and well-being. Except in cultures where diseas, hunger and evils are rampant, as in parts of Sub-Saharan Africa and it's easy to measure, it reflects the biases of the observer.
Ex: The Sunnis under Saddam Hussein measured their quality of life differently than the Shia.
To be clear, C. Lady, I have no quarrel with your parents. I certainly don't mean to insult them. Indeed, they didn't bring up your point (we'd all be helpless and hopeless without socialized medicine). You did. So, stop your whining and sniveling. Dammit, are there no tough-minded Brits, any more? How can some one's parents be insulted by an anonymous blogger on the internet who does not even know them, for crying out loud?! If I met your parents, I bet we would get along swimmingly. But, who gives a crap? That's not what this is about, and you know it. So, let's get over the nonsensical farce of personal bravo sierra, shall we?
My real issue is with your thinking. And I think it's wrong to use your family's misfortune as an advertisement for anything, particularly advocating becoming a ward of the state. You leftists engage in this issue-skirting emotionalism all the time.
I have nothing against Britain. I like the British, esp. the Scots and the British Royal Marines.
However, your country learned a while back that God (but not Allah, apparently) is dead, and state control of pretty much everything is the answer to your ills. Now, your country is swirling down a secular, post-modern hellhole that my parents taught me -- by their lives and words -- to fight to my dying breath.
And I will do just that.
Oh yeah. On the Economist's QofL Index for 2005, the US ranked 13th and the UK ranked 29th...the US was ahead of severaalEuro social demoncracies, including Germay, Belgium, The Netherlands and France.
I still think the QofL index is a crock.
Rhod, if you recall my Goomba Quality of Life Index from May, I rated the UK at #24, just two places behind my Aunt Etta's linen closet.
Nick, your Aunt Etta had the biggest and most beautiful anti-macassars I ever saw. I saw them in all their glory in her linen closet.
How dare you insult my Aunt Etta!
Cambridge Lady, yes the NHS is great, within limits. It is nice to know that my current difficulty will not bankrupt me but I will have waited 4 months for a 10 minute chat with a Consultant at the, nearby, specialist hospital and I know that I will then face a further 2 months wait for a CT scan. It's called " Rationing By Waiting List " in the hopes that some of us will cure ourselves, go private or just die.
Meanwhile I pay a private sector Osteopath 30 quid a fortnight for very effective pain relief. Their staff ? 6 practitioners, 1 receptionist/secretary while the bloated NHS has more managers than doctors and nurses combined. Go figure as our American friends say.
And another thing C Lady, we never had Social Democracy, we have a Corporatist Statist State which is getting Statier. Stalin would have loved it.
@banned - The NHS has its faults but it is better to be on a waiting list than have treatment denied because a bunch of guys in suits at your medical insurer decide to find some small print and deny you treatment altogether. I can counter your story with numerous examples of good, timely treatment. I am sorry you have had a bad experience.
At the end of the day, we pay into one giant insurance scheme - just like Americans. The major difference is that our insurers don't have to satisfy the needs of shareholders and fat cats first, before they start paying out. Bloated management and outsourcing are things I reject - they don't fit into what the NHS was envisioned to be. We pay far less into the NHS than Americans pay to private insurers - I've lived there, the figures are shocking.
If an American uses medical insurance and ends up claiming more than they pay in are they "helpless", as one commentator implied about people who use the NHS? Of course not, that's how insurance works! Unless you are an American who rejects insurance and adopts pay as you go for healthcare you are not standing on your own two feet - you are relying on the goodwill of your fellow insurers.
I would agree the UK is "corporatist" - the whole world is heading that way. The state is incredibly weak - it has so little control because everything has been sold off. For example, I'd love to see some joined up thinking on the coming energy crisis and transport - but with everything in private hands - how?
PS - the UK figures badly on the Q of A index because it ISN'T a social democracy. The US figures higher because of higher average wealth - inequality in the US has always been greater than in the UK but I fear we're catching up fast.
CL, your last paragraph, especially, is your most ludicrous. Up until then you might even have had the shred of an argument for your other ideas.
You obviously don't know what you're talking with the QofL, and if wealth DID raise the QofL, you choose to discount it as a factor to uphold your pseuo-morality of socialism. What a load of crap. In your mind, something simply is until it isn't.
You also ignore the other social democracies which, like Britain, that rate lower than the US, but who cares? You're impenetrable.
Simply put, beneath all your preaching about the effortless virtues of socialism, is your terror of personal liberty.
If you live long enough, your cultural replacements will make sure you don't have any. You deserve what you get; those yet to be born, don't.
I'm not discounting wealth Rhod - I'm saying that is why the US does so well. Greater inequality in society does result in increased crime so that adversely affects quality of life ultimately.
I'm not your enemy Rhod - "you deserve what you get" - just someone with an alternate viewpoint. Can't we have a civilised discussion?
Look up the QofL indices. Explain the other social democracies whose ratings are lower than the US. I think the QofL Index is bogus, but you brought it up.
Explain your low birthrate; yours and the Continent's. What do you see 30 years out?
What percentage of GDP, spent on what, qualifies as a social democracy? Why do the other countries I mentioned not qualify?
How much does Britain spend on social services?
Income inequality? What is it, and how does in effect QofL? Does mobility within income group matter in QofL?
I could go on all day, but I'm bored.
All countries face incredible challenges in the future. I don't see any nation on earth that is going to ride out the coming years without having to make changes and endure a degree of hardship - I'd be looking to move to such a country if it existed. I tried the USA, saw Bush get re-elected, looked at where things were heading and decided to return home. That doesn't mean I think the UK's perfect but there's a better chance of me eventually seeing the kind of society I seek here.
Look, I could go on all day too but no-one is going to change their viewpoint. I hope we have all given each other food for thought. I have certainly taken on board all the constructive comments that have been made here. Bye for now ........
That was cool.
Yeah.
I like "greater inequality does result in increased crime...".
I don't know which Britain Cambridge Lady is living in, but it's certainly not the one where I fucking live! (a parallel universe, perhaps, where all the other "socialists" live a utopian existence).
As far as QofL is concerned, the list I read says Britain is the worst place to live in Europe as I knew it would be!! That's just how it feels, too in the nasty, petty, civil liberties-destroying, police state of the Labour/EU dystopia that is our reality!
Just thought I'd chip in (since I'm the chap in the video).
Barking Spider sums it up admirably, Britain is a socialist police state.
C Lady is a fine example of the welfare addicts this country has bred. When government takes responsibilty for welfare and benefits, people loose the ability (and desire) to look after themselves. Freedom and self reliance become alien concepts to be feared. After fifty years of welfare dependancy, they are too brainwashed to reclaim their freedom.
And despite her love of claiming the NHS is free, we all know, nothing is free.
@Hairy Chestnuts - I am not a "welfare addict" - I have never claimed a penny in benefits in my life. I pay taxes and provide for my own family.
I am blessed with good fortune, a great education and good health. I am aware that not everyone has been as lucky as me - I believe in the welfare state, in the power of community, to give assistance to those in need so that they might not be "welfare addicts" in the future.
Where the system has fallen down is that people no longer feel part of society and are out for whatever they can take - this, IMO, is due to the rise of individualism, a hangover from Thatcherism (which Nu-Labour embraces) and the "I'm all right Jack" mentality of the 1980s. Just an opinion ... I appreciate not all will share it, but please don't tar me with labels like "dependent" and "brainwashed" - I am neither.
The clearest sign that someone has forgotten freedom is when they defend the very system that enslaves them.
It matters not that they havn't needed to claim benefits (yet), but the fact that they support the taking of one persons hard earned money (through tax) and giving it to another (through welfare).
This is not individualism, this is socialism, this is theft. And this situation creates an entire population of welware addicts, not just those receiving the benefits, but all those that cannot imagine living in a world without a welfare state as a safety net.
Individual responsibility is dead.
And when I lived in the US and needed health insurance I exchanged my "dependence" on the state for "dependence" on my private health insurer (and on all the other people who paid into the scheme). Do all the promoters of individual responsibility on this blog "pay as you go" for health care? If they do, I applaud them.
Where I lived in the US there were food banks - not just for the down and outs but for ordinary citizens. Would anyone say they should starve to death rather than be "dependent" on the goodwill of others who gave to the foodbank.
Would those advocating individualism get off their butts and maintain the road network outside their house if local government didn't take responsibility? Judging by the state of private roads in the UK - no! (and these are not in areas of socialism and welfare dependence ... usually pretty well-heeled conservative areas).
Any "pure" political/economic ideology, be it left or right wing, doesn't actually work if all members are not committed to the ideology. Which is why I consider myself a social democrat rather than a socialist - I believe there is some hope of such a system actually working if we gave it a chance.
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