Ordinarily this would not have been worth a printed sentence in the Lake Kissimmee Morning Bugle, but it is fairly representative of the reactions of millions of twitchy, impoverished people throughout the Muslim nations.Negotiations between a local Muslim cleric and the leader of a tiny Florida church who had threatened to publicly burn copies of Islam's holy text left the heated debate in a state of confusion with the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 terrorist attacks a day away.
The Rev. Terry Jones said Thursday he would call off the planned burning of Qurans based on a deal negotiated with the president of the Islamic Society of Central Florida that the location of a mosque planned near ground zero in New York would be changed.
[...] For U.S. political leaders and Muslims around the world who have been outraged by Jones' antics, the on-again, off-again threat bred even more angst and frustration.
Cleric Rusli Hasbi told 1,000 worshippers attending Friday morning prayers in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country, that whether or not he burns the Quran, Jones had already "hurt the heart of the Muslim world."
"If he'd gone through with it, it would have been tantamount to war," the cleric said in the coastal town of Lhokseumawe. "A war that would have rallied Muslims all over the world."
To be clear, it matters not a whit to me how many Korans are burned; the US Army burned many bibles in Afghanistan and no one cared.Muslims consider the book the sacred word of God and insist it be treated with the utmost respect.
In Afghanistan, where tens of thousands of U.S. troops are in harm's way, President Hamid Karzai said he heard Jones had perhaps abandoned his Quran-burning plan.
"The holy book is implanted in the hearts and minds of all the Muslims," Karzai said. "Humiliation of the holy book represents the humiliation of our people. I hope that this decision will be stopped and should never have been considered."
But I think that the current public burning of the Koran is a bad idea fostered by a pastor who should know better. The solution to Islam is to present a clear and accurate representation of the Gospel of Christ. And then to live it. Muslims are not fools, like everyone else they can discern whether or not you truly believe in something.The unsolicited Bibles sent by a church in the United States were confiscated about a year ago at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan because military rules forbid troops of any religion from proselytizing while deployed there, Lt. Col. Mark Wright said.
Such religious outreach can endanger American troops and civilians in the devoutly Muslim nation, Wright said.
"The decision was made that it was a 'force protection' measure to throw them away, because, if they did get out, it could be perceived by Afghans that the U.S. government or the U.S. military was trying to convert Muslims," Wright told CNN on Tuesday.
I have a friend, our former pastor, who now heads an international missionary program throughout Africa. You must be very careful, but believe it or not there is a thriving Christian missionary outreach to Muslims within their own countries. Burning the Koran hardens the attitude of many Muslims and threatens such outreach efforts.
To defeat their warriors, you must provide our warriors with superior weapons and tactics.
19 comments:
Well said, Sig. Agree with you that burning the Korans is a bad idea on many levels. Still, the way it has been blown out of proportion by the Obama, the left, and even Patraeus has played into our enemies' hands.
Erick Erickson's post at Redstate yesterday really summed up the madness that we are dealing with here:
Jihadis view the burning of Korans as an incitement to violence. Likewise, the GZ imam says moving the GZ mosque would also incite the jihadis.
They are madmen.
What we can discern is that pretty much anything we do that is "against the will of Allah" will incite them to violence. This is what they do.
In many ways, I believe that Islam is The Complete Religion For Dummies™. Get the impoverished, uneducated, underemployed rabble all riled up over nothing and they will ignore the excesses of their leaders who are truly the only ones benefiting from the practice of Islam. The Muslim rabble is impoverished, uneducated and underemployed because their leaders have seen fit to keep them that way.
"Isallah" in certain respects is about the same as "Deus Vult!" when used by anyone to incite the masses.
DC - Indeed, that's what they do.
If Jones wants to burn Qurans, let him. I think it's childish and stupid and without any reason except to incite hatred, but freedom is freedom, and he is free to do whatever stupid things he wants; ultimately it shows the Muslim world that the US really is free. The burning of Bibles in Afghanistan, as offensive as it may be to Christians, at least served a diplomatic purpose-- those Bibles were not supposed to be there as per our agreement with the Afghanis; burning them helped the war effort to win hearts and minds. That's very different than Jones' antics.
Yes, a lot of poor and poorly educated Muslims will get angry-- but they will be angry at the US no matter what-- show the intelligent moderate Muslims that we are a reasonable society and will allow a Muslim cultural center (that is meant to reach out to all faiths according to imam Rauf) even in a place that offends some of our citizens.
As for "The solution to Islam is to present a clear and accurate representation of the Gospel of Christ. And then to live it." Well, then you should treat Muslims with the respect you treat Christians of other denominations, as well as Jews. Do I really need to remind you of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? I'm sure you will find some way to justify treating Muslims differently, but then don't pretend you are living the Gospel of Christ.
If Christianity really is the superior faith then it will succeed on it's own, without a war or even prosthelytizing.
Tim,
I note how you juxtapose the burning of Korans (childish and stupid -- I agree, btw) and the placement of the GZ Mosque, i.e. the "cultural center" ... that "offends some of our citizens."
Actually, it offends most of our citizens, and it deeply wounds many of those most intimately connected with the horrors of 9/11. If there was a significant segment of the Muslim community with a modicum of common sense or decency, they would speak out against the GZ Mosque ... as Christians have done re: burning Korans.
I agree with you that we are to treat Muslims as we would any other human being, that is, with dignity and respect. However, we are also to speak the truth and act on it. It's a balance, for sure. We miss the mark, and frequently. But Jesus -- the Truth, the Way, and the Life, as He described Himself -- said (unlike Mohammed) to love our enemies. Treating people with respect also involves telling them when they are harming themselves ... and others (like the women who live under sharia law). Also, loving our neighbor means defending our families, homes, and neighbors.
And there is a segment of Islam that practices violence against what most Americans hold dear.
As for proseletyzing, your beef is with Jesus, not me or Sig. You might check out Jesus's last words to his disciples in Matthew 28.
Of course, it's somewhat problematic to take advice on advancing a cause or faith from non-believers.
To sum up an important point (for me, at least) ... There is a real distinction b/t how we respond to individual Muslims (no less precious in the sight of God than any one else) and Islam (which is a false religion that enslaves much of the Muslim world and is still stuck in the 6th century in many ways).
If you believe in equal treatment/rights for women, if you are against child brides (unlike the Yemeni Parliament ... b/c Mohammed had one, you know) or that homosexuals are to be treated with some semblance of dignity, Tim, how can you defend the barbarism that is sanctioned all over the Muslim world in the name of Islam?
DC, I know you had to respond, but you can't inform the ineducable.
That we have to convince "intelligent and 'moderate' [what does this word mean?] Muslims" that we're a "reasonable society" is morally grotesque and logically absurd.
It transfers the burden of teaching, observation, cultural justification and empirical evidence to the injured party, which in this case is the US.
The entirely rhetorical figure of the "Intelligent, moderate Muslim" shouldn't need this kind of education anyway. If they do, they're neither intelligent nor moderate.
And since Tim concedes that the "poor and poorly educated Muslims will get angry anyway", we still have the problem of potential terrorism - unless somewhere in Tim's opaque reasoning is the belief that the I & M Muslim can control the P & P E Muslims....
...of which there are too many because Islam is coexistent with poverty, poor education, violence of all kinds, oppression, chaos, tribalism, territoriality, theocracy, blood feuds and more.
Tim has to be reminded that none of the 911 perpetrators was poor or poorly educated, nor were/are any of the principles of Al Qaeda, nor are any of the Saudis (from whom come Madrassa lunacy), nor was the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood or his successors, nor is Ahmadinejad (who is a civil engineeer), or was the dead Khomeini. Some of them could even by described as intellectuals.
We owe these people nothing. They owe us. They, the moderate and intelligent Muslims owe us their rationale for the ugliness and revanchism of enormous segments of the Muslim world, and especially they need to ACKNOWLEDGE righteous indignation on the part of mosque opponents.
Any other conclusion is perverse and typically liberal. It's cowardice and passivity disguised as charity and objectivity. In a word, it's bullshit, and its purveyors are moral imbeciles.
I don't think that defeating their ideology is so necessary as it is for us to be faithful and true to our own selves as Christians and Patriots. To a Christian burning some bibles does not affect us so much as we know that God's word is eternal and can never be destroyed.
However grace and mercy compels us to turn the other cheek. God also demands of us to respect the nations; which he tells us in his word that he created.
It would also have been hypocritical for any member of this nation to burn any book in my; opinion for any reason, because in this God created nation he also gave us freedom of speech.
That includes the bedraggled rags we call the mainstream news and gag....porno....
Just to be funny that is also why he also gave us thumbs, fingers, and knobs on tv's and radios. I can turn the page, look away, and finally turn crap off.
Defeating their ideals we do not have to do but rather out love them. No matter what they do to us.
As a citizen of this nation; if we have to fight them, it's to the death.
Star, I don't think this global fracas is even "about" religion, or theology, if you will. It never was, even during the era of European colonialism.
It's about conflicting opinions about man's purpose, about personal sovereignty. Christianity in its secular form is Western civlization. There is no Christian "state", although there are many Islamic states and I don't know of any truly secular Islamic states.
Maybe parts of Indonesia and the pseudo-secularism of Egypt and Syria qualify. (In our wisdom, we're sending our young to fight and die to create two new "stable" Islamic Republics. I hear the gods laughing.)
It's impossible to separate American secular values from their Christian influence, let alone convince Muslims that a church or synagogue in Medina or Ankarra would be a good thing IF a mosque in lower Manhattan is a good thing.
For the cross-cultural alibi given for the Manhattan mosque, the Imam has appropriated the values languge of secular Western civilization to promote a religion that, almost worldwide, in Islamic states, is absolutist, non-secular and intolerant of other religions.
I can hardly believe we're even having this discussion, so far has our confidence in ourselves declined. Tim's fatuous, Little Golden Book exposition on international affairs is a good example of how dimwitted open-ended liberalism has become.
They want to kill us. We don't want to die. What must our response be?
Let's not burn the Koran. Let's behead a few Al Jazeera reporters.
Rhod, well said and right on the mark ... as always. It is really true, and you go right to the heart of it, that the burden of proof is on the Muslims and not the other way around.
It reminds me of the arguments the Soviets made. It's eerily similar.
Rhod - wow, ditto what DC said.
From now on I think I will limit my remarks to that phrase above.
Thank you guys, but I must try, at least, to keep up with my associates here.
The liberal brain imagines and justifies "Muslim rage" and resentment for Western meddling in their affairs, but completely ignores genuine Western concern for the Muslim(!) habit of murdering Westerners. And this kind of idiocy is normal to them.
My desertion of liberalism had less to do with rejection of its so-called "values", than disgust with its amoral "logic" and queer hatred for its own people.
Tim probably isn't smart enough or deep enough to understand anything more complicated than a spoon, but he votes, and that's not good.
eh.....let me re-post
sorry booger by google
AH. I feel the same way Rhod and can scarcly disagree. Yet a few years back and I will restate it here. Lets turn the middle east into a glass parking lot? Or not fight then at all. Or how about this. Conventional carpet bomb them back to the stone age or not fight them at all? Why are we trying to use a scalple on a tumor the size of a basket ball when we should be packing it full of radiation?
Why are we trying to sort out the good from the bad? Maybe to assuage our own guilt. Don't get me wrong. I am not a Chicken hawk. I have done my time and have indeed had to hang my arse out there. And would do so again if need be.
Maybe you are right bout this not being about religion....for us. For us it is about making sure that no one wants to do that again, aka revenge. Except on this day we were attacked and that attack was all about their religion for them.
We are just whacking the bees nest and this ain't going to be over just because we pull out of the middle east.
We all who come here an make the effort to grace civility know this, somewhere in our hearts.
I support the pastors right to burn that Koran or whatever. I am really saying that because our Constitution gives him the right to do so. But is not the overriding theme of this article whether he should or not. Ethicality; which is in the eye of the beholder, it is hypocritical by Jesus if he does. Turn the other cheak. As exemplary as it is, by the spirit of the constitution; he should not. I said this to my wife I hope he does go through with it. Of course my feelings are in contrast with my mind. My heart says blow them all to hell; women and children too, but there in lay the rub with my savior, Jesus. I can't do that... so I'll not say that. We'll get our chance. Mark my words.
Starsplash - so very many of us are conflicted exactly as you describe. Bomb them back into their component molecules and be done with it.
Yet the love of Christ constrains us. God brings rain to the just and unjust. He shows mercy both to the good and the evil. That is our example, our lead. I chafe against these reins, but I allow them yet to retrain me. God bless all of you who have willingly put on these reins.
Amen!
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