I hope everyone is as angry as I am.
Servicemen die in war all the time, under both administrations, but the democrat presidents have the dirtiest hands by an unfathomable amount when it comes to killing their 'toy soldiers'.FDR was appeasing Stalin when he agreed to go on final attack through Normandy.Truman - N Korea, still killing people.LBJ - Vietnam. Good God.Carter - BS hostage rescue operation Clinton - Bosnia, Somalia, USS Cole goes unaddressed, as does TWA800, Egyptair990. Majorly emboldens osammi and the al queerda people resulting in 3000 civilians murdered on 9-11-2001.obama - throwing them into the fire now in afghanistan, total incomeptence. tells the enemy when we're leaving, gives up oodles of OPSEC information.
Odie - As long as they're angry in November. Younger Americans seem to have awfully short memories.
Kid - Are we surprised that they're all democrats?
Obama should get no credit for killing bin Laden.But if the mission had been a complete failure, he should get all the blame.Am I right?
Tee, no you're wrong. All obama did was dither for months (standard procedure) then picked up the phone and say Ok go ahead.He is now removed from the mission whether it is successful or not.You'd be confusing conservatives with libtards who, regardless of factual information, always find the right at fault.
I don't believe for a second that if this all had happened exactly as it did, but with a Republican in the White House, that you guys would be having the same gripes. There were leaks in the Bush White House too, did anyone make a movie about that?This video is ridiculous. You seem to forget that the entire reason the operation was announced so quickly was because the helicopter went down. The Pakistani media was reporting on it already, the Pakistanis were demanding answers from the US, we found out about the stealth copter from the Pakistani media not Obama. The name of the Pakistani doctor first appeared in the British media (The Guardian) because he had already been taken into custody by the Pakistanis who found him through their own intelligence. There's no evidence that anyone in the US leaked it. The Navy Seals themselves have been working with Hollywood to make a film about the operation, it's not like they are angry about it or keeping a low profile.Obama never claimed to have killed bin Laden himself, in fact in that same speech he credited the armed forces (and never named the actual outfit that did it.) As commander in chief he directed Leon Panetta to change tactics, and guess what, as commander in chief that's his job. It's laughable that this melodramatic Ben Gould goes off on how "Mr. President, you did not kill bin Laden, America killed bin Laden!" then the next guy says "So for someone to sit around in a support position...no you didn't, you had nothing to do with it." Well, which is it? Are the people in support positions unimportant? Maybe it's only the people in support positions whose politics you approve of.You know, Obama ordered the strike despite the opposition of Gates and Biden. It's not like it was an easy choice.If anyone is being political with bin Laden's death it's you guys and the makers of this very obvious propaganda piece.
"FDR was appeasing Stalin when he agreed to go on final attack through Normandy."In fact, from every single history I've ever read, FDR held off on D-Day for more than a year, when Stalin was trying to convince him to do it ASAP.And really, did more soldiers die under LBJ or Nixon? Shouldn't you be complaining about Nixon pulling out of Vietnam before the mission was accomplished?
tee, Sounds like you got 'it' bad.Also sinds like throwing a ton of shit ont he wall to see what sticks. Well, I'm bored so lets have at it.1. What leaks came from the Bush White House. 1a. Did they involve OPSEC that would get Navy SEALS and other military operatives killed and have their families in danger as well?2. Helicopter went down. Please, it would have been simple for the White House or anyone in the military to say What Helicopter? Oh the ones teh Pakis are talking about. Like the Drone the Iranians supposedly shot down but was sitting on a pedestal in perfect condition? The rational of the world assume the muslim countries are both liars and jokes. A helicopter is nothing.3. the pakistan doctor came Long After obama and crew were doing victory laps and has nothing to do with the main issue you complain about.4. The Navy SEALS make or contribute detail of lots of missions. I've seen many such documentaries on the Military Channel. They do not give any OPSEC details. That's the difference. Jay Carney, outside of giving 5 versions of the story in the 1st 5 days, was giving all sorts of OPSEC details. There was no reason to know for example that the SEALS staged in a CIA house down the street.Which also outs the CIA!5. I agree with your lat paragraph. But not your last sentences.6. Your most idiotic statement is that the decision was not an easy one since Gates (a subordinate) and Biden (a Moron Clown) objected to the mission. Who The F is in Charge here. Are you diminishing (or conceding lack of) obama's ability to make a CinC level decision?MUCH WORSE, here is the guy who is primarily responsible for MURDERING 3000 CIVILIAN PEOPLE IN NEW YORK 9-11-2001 AND IT'S A DIFFICULT DECISION TO MAKE TO TAKE THE POS OUT?Would have been the easiest decision I would have Ever made.WTF is wrong you people? Are you sociopathic? I'm guessing your are to have even had even written something like that. Do you not give a rats ass about 3000 people murdered on your own soil?Back to you.
tee, "In fact, from every single history I've ever read, FDR held off on D-Day for more than a year, when Stalin was trying to convince him to do it ASAP."Got a link for that? From a credible site? because I've never read or heard such a story. Churchill wanted to come in from the other side of Germany, the "soft underbelly" Over land, which was a tactic that they had used to that pint and were kicking Germany's ass with it, so why would you change it?Can you answer that question?"Stalin wanted to do it ASAP" makes absolutely No sense because operations like that take a long time. It easily took a year to line up all the logistics, men, equipment, intelligence, fake attack scenarios, etc.Provide something substantial to back up your claims.
tee, for some reason.... I feel the need to remind you, that the attack on 9-11-2001, was the worst attack in American History and resulted in the most deaths of innocent civilians. Pearl harbor in fact resulted in fewer deaths and most of those were military personnel. And going after Osammi is somehow a difficult decision. I'm awfully curious to see how you try to defend that one.And hey, I'll give you credit for knowing GW Bush at one point said, osamma is not important or something to that effect. I have no idea why he would have said that and don't agree with it. But in advance here, I'll remind you we are not talking about Bush, we're talking about obama and his victory laps and serious OPSEC leaks.
War leaders make all kids of decisions both good and bad. Churchill was pressuring FDR for another invasion after Sicily and that lead to the almost disastrous invasion at Anzio. Stalin was after Churchill and FDR for an invasion to take the pressure off his troops. But these were behind the scene manipulations that never reached the public until after the war was over. Some of the clandestine ops are still not well known.But for Obama to identify specific special units that are still involved in clandestine operations is beyond the pale. As for the chopper, they could have dropped a JDAM on it - hell, they do that for less cause in other areas.
"But for Obama to identify specific special units that are still involved in clandestine operations is beyond the pale. As for the chopper, they could have dropped a JDAM on it - hell, they do that for less cause in other areas."1. When and where did Obama identify specific units? You guys keep making accusations that stuff reported in the press came from Obama, when (like the Pakistani doctor) it didn't, and there's absolutely no evidence it did.2. So how is it Obama's fault they didn't drop a JDAM on the chopper? Seems like a military goof, IF that's even a valid tactical concept. The Pakistani media was already reporting that this wasn't a regular chopper; they know something was up, there was a guy tweeting about the chopper during the operation.3. If you don't believe there were any leaks of classified info from the Bush White House, talk to Scooter Libby and Valerie Plame."tee, for some reason.... I feel the need to remind you, that the attack on 9-11-2001, was the worst attack in American History"Yup, and it happened on George W. Bush's watch, after repeated memos warning of the threat. Instead he spent most of his first months on his ranch, and left conservative pundits to furiously re-write history to blame it on Clinton after the fact. BTW-- all the arguments about how it is really Clintons' fault have about as much weight as the claims of Iraq yellow-cake uranium.You know what? Obama has never trailed to Romney in the polls. Choosing Ryan as VP hasn't given him much of a bump either. I'm willing to bet this video falls on deaf ears with regards to most undecideds. "It's the economy, stupid" except Romney doesn't offer anything more promising than the same stuff Bush II offered, plus he's a bigger flip-flopper than Kerry. You guys bet on the wrong horse.
Tee - Same liberal crap, on whole wheat instead of rye this time. Ever hear of Jaime Gorelick?
tee, 1. Richard Armitage admitted to leaking the Plame name. Here. from the commie news network even. http://articles.cnn.com/2006-09-08/politics/leak.armitage_1_novak-and-other-journalists-cia-officer-valerie-plame-patrick-fitzgerald?_s=PM:POLITICSBeside Plame was not covert. Beside her and hubby were puiblicly celebrating her CIA credentials all over the place.tee, that's just pathetic. Plame. Geez, figured as much.2) That's it, that's all you got? Summary: You threw a ton of shit on the wall and none of it stuck. If your skills at throwing shit on the wall are this pathetic, you may want to try a different sport.Bob Beckell sure as hell ain't gonna hire you, let alone the moron Juan Williams.
Another obvious "flaw" in this video (and by "flaw" I mean "outright lie")-- the Stuxnet virus was never leaked to the press by anyone in the US government. It was first discovered by a Russian computer security firm and was subsequently reported in the UK by Sky News (owned by Rupert Murdock's News Corp, perhaps you should blame them.) Like any computer virus (or biological virus) it spread from it's original first victim to others around the globe, so it could never have remained secret forever, people were finding it in their computers in India, Indonesia, and a few other countries besides Iran. The US government has never claimed publicly or privately to have made it. It has since been attributed to a joint US/Israel venture by experts and pundits, but even wikileaks documents regarding it show no smoking gun connecting it to the US. Do the research. This is all true and publicly available."Beside Plame was not covert. Beside her and hubby were puiblicly celebrating her CIA credentials all over the place."You seem to have a hard time with the concept of "time"-- once her name was out there she was pulled from duty immediately by the CIA, she went public later when there was nothing else she could do. Nobody knew her job before her name was leaked. Furthermore the CIA has publicly stated that she was in fact a clandestine agent, and most of her work with the agency is still classified. You are correct, Dick Armitage told the info to Robert Novak, but I don't see how that absolves Bush since he was Deputy Secretary of State under Bush.
tee, Plame was out there long before getting outed. Maybe she worked covert at one time or another. Not within the scope of this [almost] discussion however.I'm about done here. I'm tired of talking to closed minded children who get their "information" from assholes.Just as one last chance to make your argument look like it belongs in a conversation/debate between people over the age of 4, explain to me how 'Valerie Plame' (even giving you benefit on the doubt that doesn't exist on every level) compares to outing CIA people. Seal Team 6, The SEALs in general. (Terrorists can hang in San Diego ya know and target them and their families at random now that they were informed that it was SEALS that took osammi out.)Here is a hint. obama is so freakin desperate to have someone put a check mark in the 'accomplishment' side of the ledger, he'd sell his mother (who he doesn't think much of because she is White as a side subject) for a penny.obama is a racist, anti-American (doesn't believe in free speech), muslim activist (he is a muslim, has taken actions against Christians, has supported muslims) imbecile who has never worked an honest day in his life. Not even the french fry bin at McDonalds. If your life is so pathetic you have to support this POS, then you will get what you deserve.Here's some honest friendly advice. Learn to develop a capacity for critical thought; learn how to do unbiased research; do it before this country has been completely flushed (another 4 of obama and the dems Will do it) or you're going to be living in a country that sucks so bad, your life won't be worth camel shit.No doubt you'll be convinced at that point that the 'republicans' did it to you since you're probably already convinced. You'll be wrong.Just don't start bitching to 'me' about it in the supermarket because I'll just lay you out on the sport at that point.Violence? Farthest thing from my mind, last thing I'd want to do, but after having this country being run by children for 6 yrs in Congress(Senate) and 4 in the White House, I simply don't have any patience left for your kind. You're ignorant, closed minded, don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, and you've seriously F*d up my country starting in 1963 with LBJ. It's time our respective sides recognized that they have nothing in common, and let's get it on and see who wins, instead of this bullshit and completely fake bipartisan game they're pretending to play.You want socialism go for it. Unless your total net worth is less than 10 bucks, socialism will make your life worse. Plenty of actual examples all around the globe and in history. Check it out. Or not.
kid--(calmly)There is nothing in your little diatribe here that makes any logical sense. I'm not saying this to get you riled up. You earlier asked me for citations regarding Stalin and D-Day, from a "credible site" (how about you go read a book instead of relying on websites)-- well, maybe you should provide evidence for any of the stuff you just spewed. You say Obama is a racist, the man who was raised by a white mother and grandparents, and who briefly suspended his campaign in 2008 to visit his dying (white) grandmother? What would this man have to do to prove to you he is not a racist, bleach his skin and straighten his hair?You say he is a Muslim, even though he famously attended a Christian church led by Jeremiah Wright?You say he is opposed to free speech, but I note he has not silenced his critics, Vladimir Putin style, he has not enacted any laws stopping free speech, so I don't know what you are referring to. When has he ever said he was opposed to free speech, can you show me an example? I am really interested in finding out about this.Everything you say to me about being biased is far more easily applied to you. Show me evidence that Obama leaked info on Stuxnet, show me evidence that Obama leaked the names of anyone involved in the killing of bin Laden, show me evidence he leaked info about the Pakistani doctor or the stealth helicopter before the press already heard about it from other sources. You believe all these things because it fits your view of Obama as evil. In this video they didn't provide anything that would stand up as evidence in court, just stated "Obama did this, Obama did that", except I remember when this stuff was reported in the news, so I saw right away they were lying.In my search for answers I found this, which refutes pretty much everything in the video, from a guy who had access:http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/17/opinion/bergen-obama-swift-boat/index.htmlNobody denies that leaking classified info is bad, surely if it were true the GOP would be impeaching him now and would be joined by enough Democrats to make it happen, so why isn't that happening?It's pretty creepy for you to say "Violence? Farthest thing from my mind" then go into a sick fantasy about civil war. Get a grip.Not only is Romney going to lose, but in the long run the GOP is getting smaller and less inclusive, their main demographic is older white people, a shrinking population, meanwhile they are scaring away union members, public employees, gays, the educated, and just about every minority, to say nothing of new young voters who see the face of the GOP as a bunch of angry trolls like yourself.This is the future, get used to it.
tee, obama is sending me a letter admitting all - relative to my claims. I'll photocopy it when it comes and post it.Enjoy your fantasy.
Ah hello... What about Bush 2?? Iraq!!
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